John McLaughlin Scowls at Your Cosmology
[I woke up early this morning (9 a.m., which is early for me, especially on a Saturday...don't judge me) to meet some friends for "brunch" in the city. I had a tuna melt at this diner on Sullivan St. (it looked more like a bistro) and it was fantastic. But prior to the tuna melt, I had a bit of mind melt watching an old episode of John McLaughlin's One on One on PBS. He was interviewing Nancy Ellen Abrams and Joel Primack, two cosmologists who'd written the book "The View from the Center of the Universe." They were talking about big shit, man, y'know, the UNIVERSE and shit. All crazy dark matter and GRAVITY--usually when I think about that stuff, my mind falls into a hole for a few hours and passes out. It's too heavy. Mr. McLaughlin is truth, though, and he doesn't care about your fancy learnings. If you're going to face off with him, you'd better fucking bring it. This is an excerpt from the transcript.]
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: This is what you say on one page of your books: "The universe in common speech is a basket term. It's just a container for everything else, but the universe of modern cosmology" -- that's what you are, cosmologists. You're also an astrophysicist.
MR. PRIMACK: Sure.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: So you know all about the quantum theory, et cetera?
MR. PRIMACK: Yes.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: "But the universe of modern cosmology is not just a container, it's a dynamic evolving being. Its initial explosive expansion slowed down as it made most galaxies and stars, but about 5 billion years ago it began expanding faster and faster. The universe exists in different ways on every size scale from the largest to the smallest and all times are within it." And it's increasing in size at massive speed, correct?
MR. PRIMACK: Correct.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Now, are you saying here that the universe is somehow divine?
MR. PRIMACK: No.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Is the universe God?
MR. PRIMACK: No.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You're not saying that?
MR. PRIMACK: No.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: But it's living.
MR. PRIMACK: Living is a complicated word.
MS. ABRAMS: It contains life. It is the source of all life.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: And we are inside it.
MS. ABRAMS: And we are inside it. That's right.
MR. PRIMACK: But the universe --
MS. ABRAMS: But we are the universe. You see, the universe isn't something out there in the distance and we're somehow objective observers. We are the universe right here. This table is the universe. You are what the big bang is doing right there in your chair right now. We're all part of it.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: The big bang is continuing.
MS. ABRAMS: Yes, that's what the universe is. It goes on and on. Well, you can think of it that way, yes.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You have proof of that?
MR. PRIMACK: Well, that's a terminological issue as to whether we want to call it the big bang. But we are direct decedents of the big bang and the universe has been evolving and changing ever since then and it will continue to do that. The way the universe is now is not at all the way it was a few billion years ago. And a few billion years before that, it was still quite different.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: So when you're teaching this in class, as you do, your first objective is to remove the idea of stasis. This is not a static situation.
MR. PRIMACK: Absolutely.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: It's a living situation. And the universe itself is living because it's expanding.
MR. PRIMACK: And changing.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: And changing. Thus we have volcanoes and eruptions and tectonic plates and so forth.
MS. ABRAMS: On Earth.
MR. PRIMACK: The Earth is a living planet. It's in a living universe. It's in a universe that's constantly changing, evolving. It's a dynamic universe.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Where did it come from?
MR. PRIMACK: We don't know. We have theories.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: It's finite. It's not infinite.
MR. PRIMACK: The part that we can see is absolutely finite and we know how big it is.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: But it's constantly evolving, which makes it sound like it's infinite. If it's infinite, then you're in theology.
MR. PRIMACK: The part that we can see is finite. What's beyond we don't know. We can make theories about it, but we don't know which theories are right yet.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: We'll be right back.
Nov 8th